Supporting jobseekers in rural Minnesota

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Brian Begin

Welcome to the Job Matchmakers podcast, where we share stories from employment consultants about supporting people with intellectual and developmental disabilities to find employment in their communities. One person, one job at a time.

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Sherry Healey

This podcast is produced

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Sherry Healey

By the Minnesota Transformation Initiative, a technical assistance center focused on expanding capacity for competitive, integrated employment across Minnesota.

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Sherry Healey

We are your hosts, Sherry Healey

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Sherry Healey

and Brian Begin, and we work at the Institute on Community Integration at the University of Minnesota. Thanks for joining us.

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Brian Begin

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Brian Begin

Welcome to another episode of the Job Matchmakers podcast.

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Sherry Healey

In this episode, we're talking with Dominique Berg, who has more than a decade of experience in employment services. Dominique is now a consultant and worked more recently for a day and employment provider in rural south central Minnesota.

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Brian Begin

Welcome, Dominique.

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Dominique

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

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Brian Begin

We appreciate your time. And we like to ask all of our guests. Tell us how you got into this work.

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Dominique

Oh. Well, you know, it really started, advocating for individuals, especially specific abilities, became when, you know, I, I had, two brothers, that, that had, disabilities and, and so I lived, live that life and helping and advocating, and then also I do have two sons. I have two sons, one with autism and and one with, mental illness, which is, a learning experience, there as well.

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Dominique

So I worked in the restaurant business for eighteen years, and, and I thought that was that was what I was going to do. And, and, but I also did for the last thirty five years. And I just quit last year. But I also was a personal care attendant, for people with specific abilities. And so I've been involved in, in not only residential, but also, decided that after, you know, eighteen years in the restaurant business that I, I would, call it quits, and I applied for a, a job as a direct support worker.

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Dominique

And, and I, you know, did that for, for about a year, year and a half. And it just it just interested me and and so I, I started off as a, doing it being a director for like, a service and then it was asked to do come into employment. And from that point on, I was at, provider's place.

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Dominique

And then I took a little time off and then came to another, provider. And that's where I ended my career. There. But, it was amazing how employment, you know, I took like, a year break and and, you know, I knew from one provider that things were were going to start to, to evolve and and truly they were what I came to the next provider.

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Dominique

You know, I had a lot of training to do, because we were right into individual employment and, and, and that was the goal that I was hired to do was get people out, get jobs, and and start talking to, you know, employers and, and all that kind of stuff. So that's basically, you know, how I got started in this business.

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Dominique

And now I decided to, you know, I really believe that, you know, communicating to organizations, especially in the greater Minnesota area is my calling. And and so I, I decided to to, to leave the organization on my at helping my parents that are elderly as well and, and then go forward and and start start working and communicating with other organizations that maybe aren't quite there yet, but, they can be.

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Sherry Healey

Well, we really appreciate you sharing your perspective with our audience today. One thing that I noticed you said a few times there, you referred to the folks that you work with as individuals with specific abilities. Can you tell us a little bit more about why you frame, frame it in that way?

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Dominique

Absolutely, absolutely. So, you know, when I first started in employment, I was the only person, you know, of that other organization. And so, you know, I was going out and and selling, if you will, people working in employment and, and more back then was, you know, it's it's your verbiage. I need to get a job for someone with a disability.

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Dominique

And so then it just put that perspective that, you know, that feel bad, that, you know, obligation. And and so, you know, I learned through a lot of different people. None of the stuff that I say is new, but I pick up on every training that I go to, everybody that talks about things and put it together because specific abilities, because that is truly what we're looking for.

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Dominique

We are we are looking for employment with competitive wages, with benefits. So we are we are offering individuals that that like that job that can work in that job.

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Brian Begin

I also appreciate your varied work experience. You know, working in a provider, I found some of the best job developers were folks that didn't have any experience doing the work because they didn't have all the hang ups. They were just like, I'm just like hired to do a thing. So I'm just going to like, help so-and-so get a job, you know?

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Brian Begin

And then I also appreciate your, perspective. Having worked in a residential setting, having worked as a PCA, having supported non employment services and then employment services here, again, I think that's a real advantage. Particularly in employment when you worked in all those different settings because I think, you know a little bit better how to speak the language of the residential provider, because we know to support a person in employment, it's got to be a holistic approach.

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Brian Begin

So a lot of the folks that we work with, sometimes they live in group homes, sometimes they live on their own and are getting supports from PCA. And to get those folks on board as well to say, hey, it's not just me, the employment services provider, that's working to help this person be successful on the job. You know, it's it's a team effort.

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Brian Begin

Dominique, you know, there were a lot of barriers to to starting the job search with this person that you're going to talk to us about today. Can you tell us a bit about the job seeker and some of the barriers that you faced and how you and this job seeker, worked around them?

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Dominique

Well, I think, you know, the job seeker specifically was talking about, you know, this was this was, a while ago, and this was before some things were put in place. You know, I talked a lot about the waiver, and I talked about the plan, and I'm a huge person on doing your homework and and getting to know the person and, and anything that would challenge that person in an employment.

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Dominique

This person really, had a drive to work. Okay. And, and but there were, there were challenges in not, not not even giving out to the employer. We we didn't get to that part. But there were challenges, you know, within the team, within the team and, and believing, you know, this person could work, made decisions, you know, beforehand that, you know, that maybe that would not work.

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Dominique

That would not work for that person. You know, and, so, you know, that was our biggest barrier, had a lot of qualities that could go work and stuff like that, but just never given the chance. Never given the chance right. To, very. People were very blinded by it, you know, I mean, and so, you know, a lot of discussions with this individual.

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Dominique

What, what this individual liked this like it was before. It was really a thing we were just developing. But now, you know, we're getting better at, you know, learning and and doing our homework, but found out that this person loved to talk to people. You know, I mean, and so found out, that, you know, maybe this, dietitian position would work and as I, you know, put it in my notes to, to to everybody like that.

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Dominique

Another thing was argued too, and that that really was argued that you're going to take this person out of day services and they're going to lose their friendships, they're going to lose their friends, they're connecting and stuff like that. And this person actually, you know, did very well in employment. And actually, you know, when we answer those questions, when we followed up and stuff like that, we found that this person, you know, love sports and, and so connected with people was in that, that employment setting during breaks and during all that kind of stuff and did very well that way.

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Sherry Healey

Tell us a little bit more about what the responsibilities of the individual were in their job. What what what were they hired to do.

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Dominique

In the dietitian field, you know, serving the meals and actually, you know, conversing, conversing with people. And that was that was the job.

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Brian Begin

Another piece that stood out to me, Dominique was, how the person was never given the chance to work. And when we talk about the importance of a team collaborating to support a person's goals, employment goals, everybody has to be on board. I've experienced this in my work. Coming from the provider. Sometimes it's like a parent or guardian.

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Brian Begin

It's like, no, I don't want my, you know, adult child to work. I'm scared. Are they going to fail? It's a big, scary world out there. What's going to happen? You know, you're talking about this person getting an independent job, and you're telling me that there's not going to be a job coach there with them the whole time?

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Brian Begin

You know that that that's terrifying. What are we going to do? And so what are some of the things that you said? And I don't know which specific team member might have been a bit apprehensive, but what are some of the ways that you with this individual and then just in general, sort of when over or, you know, convince folks who might be a bit apprehensive that, yes, this person can work.

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Brian Begin

Sure, there's going to be some ups and downs, but in the end, it all be okay.

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Dominique

Well, I think a lot of it is, you know, can you imagine, you know, fear, you know, I mean, I, I, you know, being a parent or being a guardian of a person that you care for. Just that fear that, you know, I think that, you know, just communicating to people that, you know, that we are going to do everything we can to have that person succeed.

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Dominique

You know, I mean, there there is, there is, you know, there's all kinds of support. We, you know, we try to do the best we can to have as little support as possible. And sometimes we can and sometimes we can't. But also to, to, to to, you know, really, let that parent or let that loved one know that, you know, there is always an alternative.

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Dominique

There's always something that we can back up. Everything can be backed up and we want to go forward. You want to try to give as much independence and individual jobs we can. You know, all those internal supports within the job if we can and help people out and stuff like that. But I also, too, now that I've been in this business for, you know, a long time, but also I also have to, you know, do team meetings as a parent.

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Dominique

And then all of a sudden things change for me. I mean, I, you know, I, I think I know some things, but as a parent, you know, that's very scary, very scary. You know, my one son that, you know, I did not know, you know, you know, how that was going to work out. He works independently, and he, you know, he has been doing it for two and a half years.

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Dominique

That's scary. He has no support. We, you know, we have somebody check on him once in a great while. But as a parent, you know, I think we all have to think of that side of it, too. Is that even with somebody with the experience, you know, I'm a father first, and that's scary. So I need people that can, you know, talk the talk and assure me, you know, I mean, that, you know, that we're going to support people the best we can and try to give them independence, too.

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Dominique

I, I feel that way. I, I did it with my mother, with my brothers. And that was, you know, I always, I always say to people that I talk to people that if I, if I could sell my mom on this, I can do this. And, and truly she bought into it. And, you know, I have a brother that passed, but he was starting in deployment.

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Dominique

But I have one now that he is on for five years, and he has two different jobs, all independent. He does have some support just because of things that that we have to support and wrap around. But he does the job and he's making great earnings and it is the best thing that ever happened. And if he ever talked to her, it was the best thing that ever happened to him to he gets to meet people.

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Dominique

He gets to go out and do things. He gets to earn money. He just went last year to New York, you know, with a with, one of our family members, things that we probably wouldn't even thought could be done. And that's what I always, you know, that was a big thing, is that we when I first started this, and every little sentence hits me that, you know, the, no one deserves poverty.

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Dominique

And we need to do what we can do. And that's exactly it, is that employment is the way out. Everybody with specific abilities or not, anything, wants the bells and whistles in life. And we see that as people come up through high school and stuff like that. But I think, you know, we are well, we have a long ways to go.

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Dominique

I mean, I've learned in rural Minnesota and stuff like that. I've had meetings and and stuff like that where people not only didn't recognize there was employment services, but, you know, day services, any kind of services.

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Sherry Healey

You know, as a parent, you're your first instinct is to protect. But we do such a disservice to to adults with disabilities and and even to children with disabilities as they're growing and learning when we, you know, when we over protect. And so we, we, we do a disservice when we hold them back and, don't allow them the opportunity to make mistakes.

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Sherry Healey

And, so there's so much in what you said there. But, but but I think it's, it's just so important to not stand in the way of people with disabilities to, you know, experience all that life has to offer. And that includes. Making mistakes. It includes being told by an employer that you have to follow the rules, that everyone else has to follow.

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Sherry Healey

If it's within your ability to do so, then that expectation needs to happen with you talking about the consulting that we do for employers as well, it is help giving them permission to treat their employees with specific abilities as actual team members as as they do everyone else. So if break time is fifteen minutes, then you know it's okay to tell your employee with specific abilities that they also need to only take a fifteen minute break.

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Sherry Healey

If the start time is nine and they're rolling in at nine ten, it's okay to say, we need you to be here at 9. And this is the warning. You know, we're going to follow the process as, as we do with with every employee. And that's the way people with disabilities can learn and grow and be better employees is if we treat them as we do.

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Sherry Healey

You know, the other members of the team whenever we're able to do so.

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Dominique

Absolutely. I you know, I as I said before, I have a son that works. And and, you know, he he was getting overtime just because he's clocking in early not taking lunches and stuff like that, you know. And the player did exactly what they were supposed to. They they talked to him about it. They rectified the, the the situation just as any other employee and you know, and also, you know, let them know too that, you know, if they if that behavior would continue, you know, they'd have to go down that road according to the handbook.

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Dominique

And, and you know, that's exactly what I want them to do for the any employee is to go down that road, you know. And so, you know, we're very, you know, understand that, you know, if that continued stuff that there would be a termination and then we would move forward, you know, so, yes, I, I, you know, there's a lot of learning that way, but I think we've gone, gone quite far in that way.

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Dominique

Some areas, you know.

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Brian Begin

So, Dominique, tell us about how you incorporate the practice of customized employment and discovery into the work, that you do, supporting folks with different abilities to, to find competitive, integrated jobs.

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Dominique

You know, it's all about having conversations. It's all about, you know, learning about that person. You know, the developing part, you know, is more, the conversations that you have with your employer, you know, finding out what they want, what they need. If that person can do it, we can carve things out. You know, I there's nothing new.

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Dominique

And, you know, I heard that long time ago. Bits and pieces that, you know, carving, employment is is not a new thing. And I think, you know, after Covid has, come and gone, that people even have carved even more about their jobs. I was so grateful that, you know, that I, I needed time home with my son, and I applied for the organization.

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Dominique

With that, I just left, and, you know, I couldn't do a full time job. I mean, I could do 30, 30 hours. And lucky enough, the director at that point, negotiated with me, negotiated negotiated wages, negotiated hours, and allowed me to be here, allowed me to be a part, you know, part of that organization and do my very best.

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Dominique

And after a while, then it went up hours and stuff like that. That is the same thing. You know, it's the same thing is, is finding those jobs, carving them out, having great conversations.

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Sherry Healey

With the those best practices that you talk about in, you know, that we learn in customized employment training are relevant for the job search, not just for those who are being served under the waiver, under customized employment, quote, unquote. But they're they're relevant for any job seeker, disability or no disability. Really. You know, the concept of job negotiation and, and matching employee skill to employer need.

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Sherry Healey

I mean, these are things that are being done more and more in our society at all levels. And you even talked about it from your own personal perspective. You know, in terms of negotiating hours at a time when you needed to have more flexibility, this is something that is becoming, just, a bigger part of employee life, no matter who you are and what you do.

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Sherry Healey

I I'd love for you to talk a little bit about, those kinds of concepts in terms of customized employment in, in a, a rural area. How do you think that is different than it might be in the Twin Cities? Or it might be in, you know, in a more urban area? Or is it not different?

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Sherry Healey

It is. It is it is it just sort of, the approach might be a little different, but it's very similar.

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Dominique

Yeah. I think that, you know, I think there's challenges Metro and I think there's challenges in, in rural I, I do believe that we can be successful. You know, I've seen a lot of rural areas where, you know, and I do believe very it is the communication and it is how that, that job, employment, consultant or employment person goes out and communicates.

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Dominique

I mean, we talked to a lot of person today, you know, that that does very well with that and comes in and really learns, you know, I think, you know, a lot of things have been, kind of stepped over, when I was trained, I was in north Minneapolis and just dropped it with another partner, and we had to go talk to employers and talk about, you know, their business and, you know, and also who supplies their business because it could be another avenue, you know, all those avenues.

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Dominique

But it really comes down to communicating. And, you know, sometimes, you know, maybe rural might have a benefit because, you know, we they know the people, they, you know, they, they know the probably the, the employment person that's out there also, you know, smaller businesses that really need just, you know, these certain parts and stuff like that, you know, not going through a big HR thing is another thing.

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Dominique

These are a lot of things that we're trained a long time ago. And I think that, you know, we, you know, we have to stick to those fundamentals all the time because, you know, I mean, it's just easy to just go out. I mean, I can do that and get somebody a job. But we want somebody, you know, I a long time ago somebody said that, you know, that you want a job, you know, the, the, your dream job.

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Dominique

And I don't really do that. I just want a job that they love. Right? Because, you know, I had dream jobs, and I wanted to be a radio announcer. I wanted to be this. I wanted to be that and stuff like that. But truly, you know, as life went on and stuff like that, I found a job. I found a place that I really love to be, and that is this part of employment and doing that.

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Dominique

So, you know, it's basically getting a job for somebody and going on the journey with them. And it's their journey. And I think a lot of, you know, a lot of people that are in their teams, stuff like that, you have to remember it's their journey, you know, I mean, I meant, it's not all, you know, it is about earnings.

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Dominique

It is all that stuff as well. And I understand that. But, you know, I've had a lot of jobs in my past that I've made a lot of money. But I love that job and I love the messages and I love working there. So we need to find something that an employer employee would love to do, and love to be at a I.

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Sherry Healey

I love your reference to the journey because, you know, it's it would be very rare for somebody to start out in their dream job, you know, and and it's also very rare that you follow the path that you thought you were going to follow. I mean, my path is certainly very different than I expected it to be when I was eighteen or twenty two.

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Sherry Healey

At that stage in my life, I would have never, ever guessed that I landed where I am now at a much older age.

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Dominique

Yeah. You know, and I think that's, that's part of that is listening to people. And I will tell you that, you know, I would have never been in this field for employment, but I talked to my mother, okay. And and, you know, that's what we need to do is communicate to other people that are in your life.

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Dominique

And when I quit the restaurant business, I needed to get out. I was just done, and I and I, and I said to my mom, I don't know what I'm going to do because this is all I know to do. And she said, you know more than what you think you do. And she goes, you need to take that leap.

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Dominique

And you need to go forward because I think you have knowledge on other things. You just don't know it. Or, you know, sometimes you need a loved one or a family member or somebody that works with you. And that's why it's so important. When you do all this research, you talk to everybody. You can not just read books, but you talk to everybody because somebody might give you an idea.

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Dominique

And I took that idea and I rolled in, and I'm so appreciative of that. And I want other people to to do the same thing is I want us to listen to the teams, listen to the families, you know, and, and, and go forward that way.

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Sherry Healey

So speaking of going down journeys, you've helped somebody, on a self-employment journey. Can you talk to us about that a little bit?

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Dominique

Yeah. Well, you know, I've had a couple throughout, you know, we have but I do, you know, one thing I wanted to say is that, you know, one of the first meetings that I ever was at is that, I was sitting in a meeting, you know, in the last eight years, and you were really starting to roll unemployment.

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Dominique

And it brought tears to my eyes because I had a gentleman that was, you know, nearing retirement, and he, he said, I do not believe there's a place for me. And, and it really held strong. There is a place for everybody and, and and so, you know, he he wanted to to he wanted to publish a book.

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Dominique

He, he wanted to, you know, he did poems and he, he did all this kind of other stuff and, and, and indeed we, we work through that and, and we, we, you know, work through the arc. Brandt's got him a mini grant, got himself, and he's retired, you know, at now and stuff like that. But it was a it was a dream of years and and, you know, I'd never know.

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Dominique

I don't know how much money he made off of that or whatever, but we fulfilled the dream. And you know what? We, we we had a place. There was a place for him to work. There was a place for him to do that. You know, self-employment is is definitely a different road, but it also is doable and, and stuff like that.

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Dominique

And so that is part of employment too. It's, it's just a different ballgame. But you know, that was their journeys and, and and that it was very eye opening. Eye opening because I, I don't know anything about that. But you know what we found people that did and we encouraged him to, to do the work that they wanted to do.

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Dominique

And there, you know, they both were happy to, you know, to show people, you know, their talents and, and do that as well. I, you know, I look forward to other people that want to do that as well. If that's the if that's the avenue that they want to go, by all means. You know, I know the individual that is a public speaker and has a business on their own.

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Dominique

And I help with that somewhat in the background, but had a great, family, that supporter, this individual and that, you know, but also, you know, not everybody has that, you know, that, that support. And my family is very supportive. Everybody and stuff like that. We have a huge family, very supportive. But, you know, there are a lot of people that come through our door that don't.

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Dominique

And we are that support. And so it is our obligation to to first of all, listen, listen to what they want to do and then go forward and and be supportive in everything that we possibly can to make that come true to them. And so, hopefully, you know, I can work with more people on that down the road.

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Brian Begin

Well, thank you very much, Dominique, for for joining us today and sharing your experience. I mean, a couple of the insights that really stuck out to me was doing your homework, not rushing the process. You know, seems obvious when you say it, but in practice, it's definitely more challenging. I appreciate what you said about sometimes needing to maybe push back against the team and say, like, let's not rush the process when you're a couple months into the discovery process and the team like what?

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Brian Begin

You haven't even applied for any jobs yet. What the heck are you doing? And it's like, that's no, that's that's not trust the process. It's been proven. There's a reason why we do the steps that we do. You know, when you're building the house, you build the foundation first, when you're helping someone, work towards getting a job there, there's just there's homework that you need to do first.

00;31;16;28 - 00;31;33;08

Brian Begin

So I really appreciate that. A final question that we ask all of our guests is, what do you want people in the community to know about employment for people with different abilities?

00;31;33;10 - 00;32;02;06

Dominique

That, you know, that it's one hundred percent doable? Absolutely. That that, you know, it takes it takes a lot of work. But at that foundation, you're right, Brian, is that, it is building the right team and and getting off the the gate right away, you know, I mean, and and you will, you know, I say that to other organizations and stuff like that, but, you know, you you will have some pushback.

00;32;02;10 - 00;32;30;02

Dominique

You need people in your corner that you know, that will support you in what you're saying. And, and even times when you don't quite have it right, and use those people and get it right. You know, I mean, what you're thinking, where you're going with that. But, you know, that once this once this comes into your organization and I remember the first time we got somebody a job, it was like feel.

00;32;30;04 - 00;32;56;11

Dominique

It was like feel. Because, you know, the job seeker, they were excited. The the job consultant, they were excited. Everybody was excited. But an organization needs to support it from every part. Direct support job, coaches, the director, the financial person. Everybody needs to be on board to make this work. And and it doesn't matter rural or metro and stuff like that.

00;32;56;12 - 00;33;15;04

Dominique

It's the same game. And also, you know, and be able to go out and speak to people and let them know. I mean, this is a big thing I met when I first started and stuff like that. I and I still do, but anybody that asked me to speak anywhere, I went to want us lions, you name it.

00;33;15;04 - 00;33;29;10

Dominique

If they want to be there and talk about it. I was going to talk about my passion in supporting people and and that's kind of what I want people to know that it is, you know, all people are employable, just plain and simple.

00;33;29;12 - 00;33;51;04

Sherry Healey

Wow. Thank you, Dominique, for joining us today and also for sharing some of your experiences doing the work. Thank you, listeners for tuning in to this episode. We hope you join us next time to hear another compelling story of one person finding one job in the community. You.

00;33;51;07 - 00;34;09;00

Sherry Healey

Thank you for joining us for the Job Matchmakers podcast, funded by the Minnesota Department of Human Services. This podcast is a partnership between the University of Minnesota's Institute on Community Integration and UMass Boston's Institute for Community Inclusion.

00;34;09;02 - 00;34;26;00

Brian Begin

For more information on the Minnesota Transformation Initiative, visit our website. Linked in the show notes. We're glad you joined us, and we'll see you next time.